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Message of the Day:- 1 Timothy 6:6-10 - "6But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. Link - Cult Watch.
... to which ever denomination you're in ... of if you're the 'just the bible and me' kinda person - God's word seems to be subjective to the person.
Strange isn't it?
hi, you may want to be clear about your statement
1) God's word is not subjective to any person
2) Its man limited understanding of God's word that is subjective. The problem is that we, human, the way we see things, the way we interpret things, we does all these through our perception (hence the phrases, "The way I see this", "Its in my opinion").
Do you agree that, what we think or our opinion about God does not change God?
Oh, this may offend some people, when we study the Bible, or inteprets the Bible.... etc, do bear in mind, we are just doing a best effort of guessing what the Bible is saying, this is the same, scholar or pastors or priest or layman.... etc, the only different between an expert and a layman is that the chance of the former to guess correcty is higher than the latter.
hi, you may want to be clear about your statement
1) God's word is not subjective to any person
2) Its man limited understanding of God's word that is subjective. The problem is that we, human, the way we see things, the way we interpret things, we does all these through our perception (hence the phrases, "The way I see this", "Its in my opinion").
Do you agree that, what we think or our opinion about God does not change God?
Of course I agree that our opinion about God does not change God.
Do you agree, then, that all we will EVER have is limited understanding?
Do you agree that although God's word may be objective, for us it can only be subjective?
If all we have is our opinion, or as you say it - 'best guess', then it doesn't matter if God's truth is indeed objective; since even if it is, there is no way we can get it - therefore for all intents and purposes - for us, God's word is subjective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince69
Oh, this may offend some people, when we study the Bible, or inteprets the Bible.... etc, do bear in mind, we are just doing a best effort of guessing what the Bible is saying, this is the same, scholar or pastors or priest or layman.... etc, the only different between an expert and a layman is that the chance of the former to guess correcty is higher than the latter.
The only difference, as you say, is that experts have a higher chance to 'guess' correctly?
But as we can see ... experts themselves disagree on what God's word is ... therefore my statement that God's word is subjective. I mean, as far as we humans are concerned, if we cannot 'guess' what God's word is - then all we are left is our subjective understanding. Correct?
Last edited by James; 21st October 2008 at 05:38 PM..
Notice, because that He made Himself God (and He was God): "We will not have him rule over us." But now, the same old cry comes again. "That Bible was written by man." they say, "We don't have to live by that." That's God's Word [the Bible-Ed]; it's God Himself.
I was talking to a man yesterday, said, "Well, some man might've wrote that Bible." I said, "Yes, there was. We know Him as God." It was wrote in four thousand years apart almost, the Scriptures, back from Job, all the way to the New Testament, and wrote hundreds and hundreds of years apart, and was wrote by different men, and them not knowing the other, in different parts of country, and not one Word of it will condemn the other.I dare anybody to come under the Blood of Jesus Christ and claim any promise in There. God's obligated to take care of it.
But they won't do it. They'll come and say, "Oh, Lord, I want to do something. Give me a great gift. Hallelujah, Lord. Glory to God. I believe I got it. Hallelujah." It'll never work. You might bring forth a lot of psychology, but it won't work. God's got to recognize that repentance; God's got to do that. We could say a lot along that line, but I hope you're understanding.
Look. But now they won't have the Word rule over them. I say, "Every one of you return back; you're baptized wrong [the titles of father, son, and the Holy Ghost]. You're baptized in the Catholic church."
"Who are you to tell us that?" It's not me; It's the Word. "But I tell you; we believe..." I don't care what you believe; it's what the Bible says. "Well, we don't have to live by that." You do do it, or you're under the judgment of this Bible, for, "Whosoever shall take one word out of it or add one to it, the same will be taken out of, the part, of the Book of Life."
Let him be minister, clergyman, or whoever he is. You've got to come under the rulership of this Word, for it is God.
The Bible says it's God. "We won't have it rule over us." They take their creeds, and denominations, and their little petty things that they believe in and has been adopted by councils of men, and take it instead of God's Word.
The indictment.-William Branham. July 1963.
Can you withstand the strong arms of the Almighty God, and the sword of the Spirit, the WORD of God? Don't boost.
Last edited by eagle; 12th December 2008 at 07:07 PM..
I have never denied that the Bible is the God breathed Word of God. All I assert is that it looks like it is subjective.
This shows that you never really know this God of the Bible in the Power of His Spirit that wrote the WORD.
Do you know that this very worlds that we live were framed by the WORD of God? He spoke it, and there it was. The very reality and the beauty of the world, is the very breath of God that gives life to it, He spoke it and it came to pass. Then we come alone and said God's Word is not infallible? this statment is not even intelligent; the Power of His WORD can create and then He couldn't keep His Word?
"For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do." [Heb. 4 :12-13]
This WORD is so powerful and why? because it is God in letter form, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." so said the Scripture! [John 1:1]
"It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word [not partial] that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."This is God requirement for us is to keep EVERY Words of God.
Now, as we had said the importants of keeping the Words of God, and don't you see, at anytime any men who try to attack the credibility of God's Words, whether you say God can't keep His Word, or you say God don't mean what He said, you just don't know what manner of spirit you have.
If any one time, or just one place in the Bible's Scripture found to be fraud, or not true, then you and I we were lost; then Jesus will be found to be the greatest deceiver the world ever know. Think of it.
Can't you see it the same anti-christ spirit attacking the infallibility of God's Words?if the devil can proved one time that the Bible made mistake, he could boostly come before the throne of God and demended God to send him to heaven too, because God will be an unjust being to send him to hell, because God Himself can't even keep His credibility of His Own Word. Is that right?
The truth is God don't subject to you and your thinking, you have to bring your minds into subjection to this Words or perish. It is not what you think or who say what, it is what The WORD says about it! and God is His Own interpretation of His Words, He don't needs any men's theology to explain His Words, He proved His Own Words by bringing it come to pass. Amen.
All such confusion you see about the Scriptures, is because men try to explain this and that without the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, the One who wrote the Scriptures Himself. How could a carnal mind ever understand the spiritual things of God or even knows the Mind of God, but until the Spirit who gives these Scriptures dwell in you by a New Birth then you can start to understand the Mind of God Himself. [John 3: 1-12] isn't it? You don't know God by intellectual conception, but only by the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, who gives you the faith and revelation to "see" God.
Friend, you might not say it or even realize it, but you raise to question and discredit God's Words so as to glorify the RCC. and don't know it? I hope it's not your motive and objective here;
If the Bible, the Scriptures could forth tell us the coming of the beast in Revelation 13 and 17. even years before it came on the scene, then we come alone and said the Words is not infallible, sure that's somethings wrong with our intelligence then.
This Word of God is still strong and Powerful, and Spirit of the Living God will defence His Own credibility of His Words, It is written, God said to Israel one time, "Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes."
Israel sure paid a heavy price for their action, so it foolish that any men that will challenge the credibility of God's Word, for God is going to prove Himself and to His enemy to show His strong hands every time when they attack His Words, and at that time when He separate the sheep and the goat, you'll see, when He plague them with the second death, it will be worst than the physical death.
Hi eagle... interesting line of thought you have surfaced. However, i beg u to consider that your tone is too combative in dealing with this issue. Perhaps James is indeed raising this topic with an agenda to "glorify the RCC" as you assert below:
(quote)"Friend, you might not say it or even realize it, but you raise to question and discredit God's Words so as to glorify the RCC. and don't know it? I hope it's not your motive and objective here;" (end quote)
Perhaps a loving explanation of your stand about the objectivity of God's word would get the point across more effectively =) just a thought...
My take on this:
Yes I believe the bible is subjective to each of us to a certain extent. A school child reading the text "love your enemies" may have a far different interpretation of the seriousness and weight of this statement compared to a man whose child has just been brutally murdered by a psychopath.
Another example from the Ten Commandments. "Love your neighbour as yourself" .... needless to say, the type of "neighbour" you personally have would weigh heavily of the subjectivity of our interpretation of this commandment.
So the point I am trying to make is, the circumstances we are in definitely alter our approach to the messages of the Bible. Thus making it subjective to each of us in our situation. But are the truths of the bible subjective? No. "Thou shalt not kill" applies to everyone now, then, and in the future. I could quote more examples but i think this suffices to get my point across for now.
Actually, this is an issue of interpretation of the Bible and not so much about the authenticity of the Bible. No one is doubting that the Bible is God's given Word to mankind, nor is anyone questioning its inspiration.
I'd love to hear what the rest of you have to say about the issue of Biblical interpretation.
God's Word is subjective
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