Discuss Christianity, Preaching & Christian Related Issues or HappeningsDiscuss christianity, preaching, practical living issues, ethics or morality, challenges, being a christian, christian related happenings .. [Post Christian Forum].
Message of the Day:- 1 Timothy 6:6-10 - "6But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. Link - Cult Watch.
Maybe what you can do is to ask God, that if He exists to reveal Himself to you in a way you can understand. You must be sincere.
I have been a christian for 20 years and I can tell you stories after stories of His existence and reality although I have never seen Him once in the physical, but I know He exist.
I once met a girl, she was non-christian and she said in her heart in all sincerity, "God if you exist, please show me." She told me, be very careful of what you pray. She said that 2 years later, she was at home and she heard someone call her name. She looked around the living room but no one was there. It cant be her parents cos they only know Chinese but someone was calling her English name. Then she looked out of the window and saw a man there calling her. She approached and asked Him who He was. He told her He was Jesus and asked her to go to church. She met Jesus on her flat at home in a HDB block. So she went to church, to cut story short.
I was amazed and asked if she met Jesus again. She said no but her mom did. Her mom was hospitalized and in a coma, she was at home praying and God told her to go to hospital to call her mom. She did and nothing happened. Then she went home. Next day, her auntie called her and said her mom has woken up and wants to see her and wants to be a Christian. She was shocked, how come suddenly wake up and suddenly want to be Christian. Went hospital. Then her mom told her she was at the Gates of Hell and about to step in and then she heard a voice calling her name, she turned around and there was a bright light and Jesus came and pulled her out of hell and she awoke.
Amazing. First time I hear and meet the person who experience that.
Seek and you will find. You need to seek God and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart.
I think more likely the person who told her that he is Jesus is actually a mad man wandering downstairs and the mad man always go around telling people to go to church.
And her mother is dreaming of dying and thought she is dying and wants to be saved. Shere therefore come up with a story of Jesus pulling out and saving her and thus she goes to church like her daughter.
Wonderful stories though. Give you 5 stars credit for it.
There is another woman, who gave her life to "Guan Yin" then she died and went to hell but Jesus saved her and she is alive today, a Christian, proclaiming the message of Jesus. For this real life experience, you can listen to the service at FCBC 8 Apr 2007 last Sunday, Chinese service at the link below, watch the online video. Somewhere during the preaching by Pastor Lawrence Khong, he invites people on the stage to share their testimony.
Anybody can claim that he or she went to hell and back.
Who knows and what proofs do you have?
I am not saying I am doubting such testimony but come on, logically and realistically anybody can say that he or dreamt she died and now he or she is back through Jesus.
I too can say that and said "Guan Yin" brought me back and many people will follow me to become a buddhists.
From your reply, it seems to me that you are hinting perhaps that those who believe in "Guan Yin" go to hell.
I tend to agree that God doesn't exist that if he exist then logically he will stop murders and adulteries etc...
Simply, why nobody can see that God exists or proves that God exists very concretely? Can any pastor proves to his church members that God exist?
PS : I know of FCBC, in fact this website big banner on the main page has a FCBC banner.
Re: Does God Really Exist Or Is It Our Imaginations?
1) Can you prove to me that God do not exist?
Lets examine the Greak Works of the Angelic Doctor (Thomas Aquinas) nearly 8 centuries ago.
Quote:
Article 3. Whether God exists?
Objection 1. It seems that God does not exist; because if one of two contraries be infinite, the other would be altogether destroyed. But the word "God" means that He is infinite goodness. If, therefore, God existed, there would be no evil discoverable; but there is evil in the world. Therefore God does not exist.
Objection 2. Further, it is superfluous to suppose that what can be accounted for by a few principles has been produced by many. But it seems that everything we see in the world can be accounted for by other principles, supposing God did not exist. For all natural things can be reduced to one principle which is nature; and all voluntary things can be reduced to one principle which is human reason, or will. Therefore there is no need to suppose God's existence.
On the contrary, It is said in the person of God: "I am Who am." (Exodus 3:14)
I answer that, The existence of God can be proved in five ways.
The first and more manifest way is the argument from motion. It is certain, and evident to our senses, that in the world some things are in motion. Now whatever is in motion is put in motion by another, for nothing can be in motion except it is in potentiality to that towards which it is in motion; whereas a thing moves inasmuch as it is in act. For motion is nothing else than the reduction of something from potentiality to actuality. But nothing can be reduced from potentiality to actuality, except by something in a state of actuality. Thus that which is actually hot, as fire, makes wood, which is potentially hot, to be actually hot, and thereby moves and changes it. Now it is not possible that the same thing should be at once in actuality and potentiality in the same respect, but only in different respects. For what is actually hot cannot simultaneously be potentially hot; but it is simultaneously potentially cold. It is therefore impossible that in the same respect and in the same way a thing should be both mover and moved, i.e. that it should move itself. Therefore, whatever is in motion must be put in motion by another. If that by which it is put in motion be itself put in motion, then this also must needs be put in motion by another, and that by another again. But this cannot go on to infinity, because then there would be no first mover, and, consequently, no other mover; seeing that subsequent movers move only inasmuch as they are put in motion by the first mover; as the staff moves only because it is put in motion by the hand. Therefore it is necessary to arrive at a first mover, put in motion by no other; and this everyone understands to be God.
The second way is from the nature of the efficient cause. In the world of sense we find there is an order of efficient causes. There is no case known (neither is it, indeed, possible) in which a thing is found to be the efficient cause of itself; for so it would be prior to itself, which is impossible. Now in efficient causes it is not possible to go on to infinity, because in all efficient causes following in order, the first is the cause of the intermediate cause, and the intermediate is the cause of the ultimate cause, whether the intermediate cause be several, or only one. Now to take away the cause is to take away the effect. Therefore, if there be no first cause among efficient causes, there will be no ultimate, nor any intermediate cause. But if in efficient causes it is possible to go on to infinity, there will be no first efficient cause, neither will there be an ultimate effect, nor any intermediate efficient causes; all of which is plainly false. Therefore it is necessary to admit a first efficient cause, to which everyone gives the name of God.
The third way is taken from possibility and necessity, and runs thus. We find in nature things that are possible to be and not to be, since they are found to be generated, and to corrupt, and consequently, they are possible to be and not to be. But it is impossible for these always to exist, for that which is possible not to be at some time is not. Therefore, if everything is possible not to be, then at one time there could have been nothing in existence. Now if this were true, even now there would be nothing in existence, because that which does not exist only begins to exist by something already existing. Therefore, if at one time nothing was in existence, it would have been impossible for anything to have begun to exist; and thus even now nothing would be in existence — which is absurd. Therefore, not all beings are merely possible, but there must exist something the existence of which is necessary. But every necessary thing either has its necessity caused by another, or not. Now it is impossible to go on to infinity in necessary things which have their necessity caused by another, as has been already proved in regard to efficient causes. Therefore we cannot but postulate the existence of some being having of itself its own necessity, and not receiving it from another, but rather causing in others their necessity. This all men speak of as God.
The fourth way is taken from the gradation to be found in things. Among beings there are some more and some less good, true, noble and the like. But "more" and "less" are predicated of different things, according as they resemble in their different ways something which is the maximum, as a thing is said to be hotter according as it more nearly resembles that which is hottest; so that there is something which is truest, something best, something noblest and, consequently, something which is uttermost being; for those things that are greatest in truth are greatest in being, as it is written in Metaph. ii. Now the maximum in any genus is the cause of all in that genus; as fire, which is the maximum heat, is the cause of all hot things. Therefore there must also be something which is to all beings the cause of their being, goodness, and every other perfection; and this we call God.
The fifth way is taken from the governance of the world. We see that things which lack intelligence, such as natural bodies, act for an end, and this is evident from their acting always, or nearly always, in the same way, so as to obtain the best result. Hence it is plain that not fortuitously, but designedly, do they achieve their end. Now whatever lacks intelligence cannot move towards an end, unless it be directed by some being endowed with knowledge and intelligence; as the arrow is shot to its mark by the archer. Therefore some intelligent being exists by whom all natural things are directed to their end; and this being we call God.
Reply to Objection 1. As Augustine says (Enchiridion xi): "Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil." This is part of the infinite goodness of God, that He should allow evil to exist, and out of it produce good.
Reply to Objection 2. Since nature works for a determinate end under the direction of a higher agent, whatever is done by nature must needs be traced back to God, as to its first cause. So also whatever is done voluntarily must also be traced back to some higher cause other than human reason or will, since these can change or fail; for all things that are changeable and capable of defect must be traced back to an immovable and self-necessary first principle, as was shown in the body of the Article.
Re: Does God Really Exist Or Is It Our Imaginations?
When you 'claim' that God does not exist, actually what you are really saying is that you have not recognised any evidence of God in your life. For unless you have searched through the entire universe, how can you conclude that there is no God? On contrary, there are countless number of people who have had an encounter with God and whose lives have been turned around by God from the path of destruction. They may not be able to win any argument put up by you but to convince them that there is no God is like trying to convince you that you came into the world by yourself without ever having a mother!
If we see a piece of beautiful art, we know that there must be a artist who has created it. If we see a well design house or skyscraper, we know that an architect must have designed it. In the same way when we see the beauty of nature and scenaries around us, how can we deny the existence of a creator and designer behind them? Albert Einstein once said that if we were to study the internal structure of a stone, we have to conclude that there must be a creator. What about the different parts of our body with billions of different kinds of cells working together in harmony to enable us to function, we got to be kidding if we say there is no designer behind it!
Sometimes people deny the existence of God because they have been hurt by others who claim to believe in God or because God doesn't conform to their expectations of what God should be. Let me explain why these reasons are not good reasons to deny the existence of God.
Firstly, if I declare that whatever I'm doing, I did it for you and because of you. Can anyone hold you responsible for my actions? If I claim to be your fan and tells everyone that I'm crazy about you, can you be held accountable for I do? The answer to both these questions are obviously NO! God will hold each of us accountable for our own action, nobody can put the responsibilty of his actions on others and certainly not on God, not even religious ones. So don't let people who claim to believe in God prevent you from getting to know God for yourself!
Matt 7:21-23 : "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"
The scriptures here shows that one day God will differentiate those who are truly doing His will from those who are doing things in His Name. There is a significant difference between those have a relationship with God and those who only have a religion.
Secondly, God will never come to us on our terms and conform to our expectations, otherwise God won't be God! We have the tendency to blame God for every bad thing that happens on earth and take all the good things for granted. We invented cars and produce alcohol, then blame God if our loved ones got killed by drunk driver. We hoard wealth and food, becomes over-weight and die of heart attack or cancer while people die of poverty and starvation in some other parts of the world, we say it's God's fault not our responsibilities. We condone promiscuity and homosexuality but blame God when innocent people get infected due to contact or blood infusion. But God would have none of these because free will have to come with responsibilities and consequences of our actions on ourselves and on one another, we are all inter-dependent. Have you come across parents who bails their children out of all kinds problems and trouble without suffering any consequence because they think that is the loving thing to do? That is a sure formula to develop them into social monsters instead of responsible adults!
Lastly, God has an eternal perspective of things which we often do not have. Human death is just a transition of life from one phase to another. Any way the statistics has been one out of one, it's just a matter of timing. While we often view death as a tragedy, God's concern is primarily whether we are going to spend eternity with Him or not. So stop questioning God and begin the journey of getting to know Him and walking with Him on a daily basis. You will experience a relationship with Him that makes all arguements superfluous!
"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." - Isaiah 55:9
Re: Does God Really Exist Or Is It Our Imaginations?
3 steps to prove if Jesus is imaginary or really exist.
Step 1 Read
1 Cor 15:3-8
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
We learnt,
1) Jesus proved his resurrection by appearing to people
2) It is ok to appear to people
3) appearing does not take away free will or harm faith
Step 2 Read
Mat 18:19-20
19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about ANYTHING you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
We learnt
1) Jesus is already here amongst us
2) God will do anything we ask
Step 3
Ask Jesus to appear
Grab another friend or 2 and try this prayer
"Dear Jesus, we know that you are in the midst of us already. We ask you to physically appear, so that we may know you are resurrected. We have faith that you will answer our prayer as in promised in the Bible. In you name we pray, AMEN."
You will only know if you try
And for atheist try searching for a brain disorder call temporal lobe epilepsy.
Re: Does God Really Exist Or Is It Our Imaginations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by -_-lll
3 steps to prove if Jesus is imaginary or really exist.
Step 1 Read
1 Cor 15:3-8
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
We learnt,
1) Jesus proved his resurrection by appearing to people
2) It is ok to appear to people
3) appearing does not take away free will or harm faith
Step 2 Read
Mat 18:19-20
19"Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about ANYTHING you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."
We learnt
1) Jesus is already here amongst us
2) God will do anything we ask
Step 3
Ask Jesus to appear
Grab another friend or 2 and try this prayer
"Dear Jesus, we know that you are in the midst of us already. We ask you to physically appear, so that we may know you are resurrected. We have faith that you will answer our prayer as in promised in the Bible. In you name we pray, AMEN."
You will only know if you try
And for atheist try searching for a brain disorder call temporal lobe epilepsy.
But a non-Christian will just refute you by stating you are assuming that the books in the Bible are true. Why should we trust what 4 Gospels have to say when there are 20 other Gospels which clearly states that Christ is not God. How can you be so sure that the Catholic Church selected the correct books in the first few centuries. Islam supports me here since it says the early Catholic Church corrupted the Gospel by chosing the Pauline Epistles and adding words to Scripture.
So whatever you bring to me from Scripture has no weight on me unless you can prove to me its Gods Word
How do you counter that?
Does God Really Exist Or Is It Our Imaginations?
Re: Does God Really Exist Or Is It Our Imaginations?
God Bless!
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